De-converting the truly born again

I received an update from a social media FaceBook Page. The Page ‘Christian Word’ is changing it’s name to Therefore God Exists.

Not a big deal, I like on stuff all the time. I also get added to discussion groups often. (some without my being asked, which is a bit irritating) So, after checking out the page I came across this post by Therefore God Exists

I am so glad that my faith does not depend on my ability to hold onto Christ, but on the fact that Christ has held onto me. “If we are faithless, he remains faithful.” 2 Tim 2:13
That is why atheism and all other non-Christian systems truly have a 0% efficiency rate of de-converting those who have truly been born again.

B”H “a 0% efficiency rate of de-converting those who have truly been born again.”? Obviously the author of the post has never heard of the groups Following G-d, Out of Christianity (A return to Torah Teaching) or Leaving Christianity and Finding the Truth in Torah, to name only a few groups not to mention read the book Leaving Jesus by James Wood.

Word to my fellow De-converts who have left Christianity and began a new and exciting journey following the G-d of the bible, the G-d of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

You’re not alone!

As Carmen Welker said in a simple and understandable way in one of her BibleRealityCheckTV: Believers in messiah are flocking to traditional Judaism in Drovers. 1.

 

 Therefore God Exists: I think that it is important to ask questions, to open conversation, and to allow the Christian faith to endure scrutiny and examination… We do not think that faith is blind. We think that faith is reasonable, will endure critical examination and should be questioned.

 

Here you will find a list of questions to be considered because what you have been taught to believe is no good if it cannot withstand scrutiny.

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Simply & honestly answer these questions: WITHOUT taking anything out of context, mistranslating, or imposing a pre-conceived notion. (All chapter and verse numbers are according to Christian bibles.)
(It’s just a sampling of a list, too. There are many more issues than this!)
Why does the subject of 2 Sam. 7.14 “commit iniquity,” if, according to Hebrews 1.5, this is Jesus?

Why does the speaker in Psalms 41.4 say, “I have sinned against Thee,” if, according to John 13.18, this is Jesus?

Why does the speaker in Psalms 69.5 mention his “folly” and his “wrongs” if, according to John 15.25, John 2.17, Romans 15.3, and John 19.28, this is Jesus?

Why is the speaker in Psalms 69.31 (who we have already established is Jesus) declaring that praise and thanksgiving will please God better than a sacrifice??????? Of all places for Jesus to bring this up (which would be strange enough in any event), isn’t this the strangest, right when he’s on the cross??????

Why does God, in Jer. 31:29-30, make a point of stressing that “everyone will die for his own iniquity” – immediately before introducing the new covenant, whereby Jesus will die for everyone else’s iniquity? Isn’t that a rather strange way for the “tutor to lead us to Christ?”

When does the new covenant of Jer. 31:31 come into effect? If it was 2,000 years ago, why hasn’t the first 3/4 of verse 34 happened yet?

Why will there be sin sacrifices when the messiah comes, when the New Testament is adamant that there won’t be? (Hebrews 9:28; Heb. 10:10,12,14,18; Ezekiel 3:18,19,21,22,25; Ezek.44: 27, 29; Ezek. 45:17,20,22,23,25)

Why is Torah law going forth from Zion in the messianic age, in the sight of all the nations of the world, instead of Jesus, if the law is a curse and Jesus has fulfilled and replaced it? (Isaiah 2.3, Micah 4.2)

Why are the Jews keeping (DOING) the Torah law in the messianic age, if it is a curse and Jesus has fulfilled and replaced it? (Ezek. 37.24)

Why is no one who is uncircumcised IN THE FLESH allowed to enter the temple in the messianic age, if “neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything,” according to Paul? (Gal.5.6, Ezek. 44.7) Whose opinion should I trust, Paul’s or God’s?

Why does “forever” have an expiration date in Christianity? (Romans 10.4; Ps. 119: 44, 111, 152, 160, 172, 142; Deut. 29.29)

How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage if he did not have a human father? Can the “Holy Spirit” be of the seed of David?

How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage, even through Joseph, if Joseph came through the cursed line of Jeconiah? (Jer. 22:28-30, Matt. 1.11,12)

How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage, even through Mary, if she came from Nathan, the wrong son of David, as well as from the cursed line? (Luke 3:31, 1 Chron. 22:9,10, Luke 3:27)

How could both Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies be correct, and divinely inspired, even if they are of two different people, if they diverge (at Nathan and Solomon) and then come back together (at Shealtiel)? How can two brothers have the same grandchildren???

Why don’t the genealogies in the New Testament agree with each other, or with 1 Chronicles 3, which came first and CANNOT be incorrect?

Why is Paul so anxious for you to not study the genealogies? (1 Tim.1:4, Titus 3:9-11)

Why is Hebrews 8.9 wrong about what God said in Jer. 31.32?

Why is Hebrews 10.5 wrong about what God said in Psalm 40.6?

Why is 2 Corinthians 3 wrong about what God said in Exodus 34.29-35?

Why is John 19.37 wrong about what God said in Zech 12.10?

Why are Romans 9.33 and 2 Pet. 2.8 wrong about what God said in Isaiah 28.16?

Why is Romans 10.6-8 wrong about what God said in Deut. 30.12-14? Why does it leave out Deut. 30.11, and the last half of verses 12, 13, and 14???

Why is Romans 11:26-27 wrong about what God said in Isaiah 59:20-21?

Why is Matt. 12.21 wrong about what God said in Isaiah 42.4? Why does he leave out what it really says – “He will not be disheartened or crushed until he has established justice in the earth”?

Why is Matt. 1.12 wrong about what God said in 1 Chron. 3.19?

Why is Matt. 2.6 wrong about what God said in Micah 5.2?

Why is Luke 4:18-19 wrong about what God said in Isaiah 61:1-2?

In Romans 9:24-26, why does Paul leave out the first part of Hosea 1.10, which tells us that the verses he is quoting (the second half of Hosea 1.10, and Hosea 2.23), refer to the sons of Israel?

Why does Matt. 2.15 leave out the first half of Hosea 11.1, which says that Israel is God’s son?

Where in the Hebrew scriptures is the verse, “And he shall be called a Nazarene,” quoted in Matthew 2.23?

How can it be possible that the holy and inspired men of the New Testament were so ignorant of the Hebrew scriptures?

Why doesn’t Jesus himself know his own scripture, if he’s God and he wrote it? (Math. 23.35; Zech 1.1,2; 2 Chron 24.20,21)

Why is Jesus wrong in Math. 5.43 about what God said in Lev. 19.18?

Why does Jesus change God’s law (Math. 5.32, Luke 16.18 – declaring every legally divorced woman an adulteress, and every man married to a legally divorced woman an adulterer), if “I did not come to abolish the law,” and “whoever annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven?” (Math. 5.17,19)

Why do most Christian translators lie about what God said in Hosea 14.2, and change His words, “take away all iniquity… that we may present our lips as bulls” (demonstrating that prayer substitutes for sacrifice) to “… the fruit of our lips?”

Why do Christians never mention verses like Hosea 14.2 or 1 Kings 8:44-52 or 2 Sam 12:13 or Lev. 5:11-13 or Ps. 32.5 or Isaiah 6.6-7 which demonstrate that one does not need a blood sacrifice to have their sins forgiven, or verses like Proverbs 21.3 or Psalms 40.6 or Hosea 6.6 or Psalms 69:30-31 or 1 Sam. 15.22 which say clearly that God actually PREFERS other methods of atonement to blood sacrifice, or Jeremiah 7:22-23 which goes so far as to say that God NEVER EVEN COMMANDED US ABOUT SACRIFICES???

Why are there numerous stories in the torah of people who sinned, and were forgiven through prayer and repentance – WITHOUT A SACRIFICE, such as David in 2 Sam 12:13, or the city of Nineveh in Jonah – and not a single story, ever, of someone who sinned and gave a sacrifice in order to be forgiven?

How can Jesus be both the high priest (per Paul in Hebrews), who comes from the tribe of Levi, and the messiah, who comes from the tribe of Judah?

How can Jesus be the Passover lamb for the gentiles, especially the uncircumcised, if outsiders were forbidden to partake of it? (Ex. 12:43,45,48)

Why is the New Testament so concerned about the laws of the paschal lamb when it comes to the 2nd half of Ex. 12.46 (see Jn. 19.36), but not at all concerned with these laws when it comes to Ex. 12: 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,44, the first half of 46, or 48?

What good is Jesus as a sin sacrifice to the intentional sinner, since (with one exception, Lev. 6.2,3) the sin sacrifices were only for the unintentional sinner? (Lev. 4: 2,13,22,27; 5:15,18)

How can Zech. 12.10 be referring to Jesus’ crucifixion, as John 19.37 says it is, when Zechariah is clearly describing an end-time apocalyptic war that has not yet taken place?

How can Zechariah be making a “dual” prophecy, when according to the Christians, this passage refers to God being pierced? Is he going to be pierced again when he returns in glory?

When was the last supper – the seder night (the first night of passover) or the night before? (Matt. 26.17-19, Mark 14.12-16, Luke 14.7-15, John 13.1-2)

When did Jesus die – the first day of Passover or the day before? (Matt. 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, John 18.28, 19.14)

Why did God, in Jer. 31.16, tell Rachel that her children would return, if He was referring to the dead children in Matthew 2.16? Were they going to come back to life?

Why are the nations putting their hands on their mouth in Micah 7.16, much like in Isaiah 52.15? What is it that they’re seeing and being ashamed of?

Why did the church put an unnatural chapter break between Isaiah 52.15 and 53.1?

Why did the Christian translators remove the two plural references to the servant in Isaiah 53.8 and 9 and replace them with a singular form?

Why does the servant in Isaiah 53.10 have physical children (“zera”/seed) if it refers to Jesus?

If “zera” really means spiritual children in Is. 53, why do all Christians agree it means physical offspring in every other place in the bible that it is used to refer to people?

If “zera”/seed really means spiritual children, which ONE of the world’s Christians is the true child of Jesus, since according to Paul in Gal. 3.16, “seed” refers to only one person?

Why are there many clear prophecies which state that Israel is despised and afflicted, but none which say this about the messiah?

Why is the automatic Christian response to the problems of Isaiah 53 ALWAYS to quote the rabbis they otherwise despise and mock and whose writings they don’t believe in, that Jesus berated and Paul called “men who turn away from the truth” (Titus 1.14)?

Why did the disciples not understand what Jesus was talking about in Luke 18:31-34 and Mark 9:32, if it was always common knowledge among the Jews that the messiah was to suffer, die, and rise from the dead?

Why did Jesus make predictions that didn’t come true, if that’s a sure sign of a false prophet? (Math. 16:38, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27, Deut. 18:20-22)?

Why does God the Father know something Jesus doesn’t know (Mark 13.32) if Jesus IS the Everlasting Father, and the Mighty God, according to Isaiah 9.6?

Why do the writers of the New Testament translate the word “moshiach” correctly as “an anointed one” every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Daniel 9?

Why do the writers of the New Testament translate the word “ca’ari” correctly as “like a lion” every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Psalm 22.17?

Why do the writers of the New Testament translate the words “y’mei olom” correctly as “days of old” every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Micah 5.2?

Why do the writers of the New Testament translate the word “bar” correctly to “cleanliness” or “purity” every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Psalm 2.12? Why is it that 5 verses earlier King David knew the correct word for “son,” but not in verse 12?

Why don’t the writers of the New Testament translate “ha’almah” as “virgin” in Proverbs 30.19, if that’s what it means? (What the four “ways” in vs. 19 have in common is that they leave no trace, as evidenced by vs. 20 that follows.)

Why did the Septuagint authors use “parthenos” in Genesis to describe Dina who had just been raped, if it means virgin according to messianic authorities?

If Isaiah 7.14 refers to the virgin birth of Jesus, via “dual prophecy” (since it obviously can’t refer to him via the context), then whose was the other virgin birth that occurred at the time of the prophecy?

* Why are there numerous prophecies about gentiles bowing and apologizing to the Jews in the last days, and admitting they (the gentiles) have been wrong, and not a single prophecy the other way around – of the Jews apologizing to the gentiles – if it is indeed the Jews who are wrong?

* Why are we commanded NOWHERE in the Jewish scriptures to believe in the messiah when he comes, if our salvation depends on it?

* Why do all the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled deal only with the PERSON of the messiah, which the Torah barely mentions, and have nothing to with the ACCOMPLISHMENTS of the messiah, which the Torah is very specific about?

* Why is it that all of the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled are all things that are of no practical advantage to anyone, and do nothing to improve the quality of anyone’s life, while all of the prophecies that he did NOT yet fulfill are all things that will be of tremendous benefit to every individual on the planet, and all of mankind as a whole? (For example, how does a virgin birth that happened 2000 years ago, or Jesus’ being thirsty and being offered vinegar, or being born in Bethlehem, or being killed with a robber, or riding on a donkey, etc… help me out at all? How do any of these “fulfillments” solve a single problem in my life, or anyone’s? Yet, on the other hand, when there is world peace, and all the evil people are gone, and all the sick are healed, etc… now THERE are some messianic prophecies we can surely use. )

* Why is it that all of the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled are all things that CANNOT BE PROVEN, while all of the prophecies that Jesus did NOT yet fulfill, on the other hand, are all things that COULD NOT BE DENIED IF HE HAD fulfilled them – even just ONE of them?

* Why is it that the ONLY way to fit Jesus into the torah’s messianic prophecies is through the use of extreme force? Why is one or more of the following methods ALWAYS required? 1) taking verses out of context, 2) mistranslating, 3) placing a 2,000 year gap (at least) in the middle of a verse – totally unjustified by the context – i.e. sweeping any failure of Jesus to fulfill the scriptures under the rug of the 2nd coming, or 4) making verses up? Why can’t the torah ever just ONCE mention Jesus clearly, if it’s so important that we believe in him?

ARE ALL OF THE ABOVE FACTS JUST TREMENDOUS, AMAZING, UNBELIEVABLE COINCIDENCES???????

If God changed his mind about so many crucial things He said in the Torah, as demonstrated above, and now wants us to believe in Jesus, why didn’t he have the decency to come down to ALL of us, and endorse Jesus in person to make it clear to us, as he came down to all 3 million of us on Mt. Sinai to endorse Moses, to make sure we would believe in the Torah forever? (Ex. 19:9.11,17, Ex. 24.17)

Why does God break one of His own commandments, “You shall not place a stumbling block before the blind” (Lev. 19.14), since according to 2 Cor. 3.14 and 4.4 I am blind, and according to Rom. 9.32, 1 Peter 2.8, and 1 Cor 1.23, the above challenges are all part of “a stumbling stone?”

Why does God trick us, and present us with such tremendous difficulties as the above questions, and then throw us into hell for rejecting an apparent false god, who’s really not false, if “God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth?” (1 Tim. 2.4)

Why is the Christian God such a sadist? And why do Christians expect Jews to want to embrace such a God? (5)

 

Source: 1. https://youtu.be/ecUh3BJ_EaY

2. Therefore God Exists  https://www.facebook.com/thereforegodexists

3. Following G-d, Out of Christianity (A return to Torah Teaching)

4. Leaving Christianity and Finding the Truth in Torah

5. http://www.pathwaysradio.com/questions.html

 

deconvert ‎(third-person singular simple present deconverts, present participle deconverting, simple past and past participle deconverted)

  1. (intransitive) To undergo a deconversion from a religion, faith or belief or (transitive) to induce (someone) to reject a particular religion, faith, or belief.  [quotations ▼]

    She has deconverted from Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.

    They tried to deconvert him.

 

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